Cenk has lost me and I'm officially done with TYT

Everything About the Young Turks because the TYT Army is too Strong!
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RareBird
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Cenk has lost me and I'm officially done with TYT

Postby RareBird » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:01 am

Sorry, I don't know if this section is just for chronicling what TYT "covers" but it is sub-labelled "everything about the Young Turks..." so please find some place (other than Gitmo please) if opinion about TYT's is verbotten herein. I've had it with Cenk and his vehicle for reckless bombast as the self-appointed "fearless" voice of progressives. I have tolerated the criticism of President Obama in the spirit of sympathizing with progressive ideas and voices who are very sincere about indeed making social, economic and political PROGRESS that is inclusive and fair to "the American people" as well as timely if not uber-urgent, but after weeks and weeks of watching the Current Network's broadcast of TYT, I have seen more subjective self-serving generalities than I care to for the rest of my media patronage future from any network--much less one that tries to pass itself off as the vanguard of "media change". Cenk has been taking liberties such as characterizing Google, Wikipedia, and the many other Internet operators who elected to symbolically redact their logo or withhold service for a day et al to voice their opposition to SOPA as "the good guys" and everyone else who sponsored or otherwise supports SOPA as the "bad guys". What makes Google an automatic "good guy?" or, here's just a few names from the "A"s in the alphabetical listing of SOPA supporters i.e.
American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO)
American Federation of Musicians (AFM)
American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA)
American Guild of Musical Artists (AGMA)
American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP)
Americans for Tax Reform
Association of American Publishers (AAP)

there are over a hundred more. What makes them the automatic "bad guys". What seems to be the issue is simply "corporation demonification" which tends to simply "like" newer players like Google and Amazon because they're "cool" or hip and hate older corporations like ABC, CBS, etc because that's cool or hip too. I can't tell from what I'm hearing on TYT. It's just shooting from the hip.

Corporations are not people my friends, but they are not all made of the same stuff and all run to evade personal responsibility while coldly feeding shareholders dividends no matter who starves or what gets polluted. Corporations are not a collective conspiracy against freedom. They are an economic and financial construct and after that each one is unique and stands for different things. Some corporations HAVE BEEN guilty of gross wrong-doings, especially since Ronald Reagan and his successors started removing laws (oh yeah, they call it de-regulation but it's the same thing as law removal which to cold-hearted exploiters and out and out criminals means a go ahead and do whatever the hell you want pass), but "corporations" are just incidental in the pie chart of who benefits from SOPA. They are not disconnected from people and some kind of automatically evil life-form--they facilitate progress albeit in imperfect ways. That's just where the chips of history have fallen and it's not to late to do something about creating new types of financial cooperatives. In the end it is people my friend who benefit from the efforts of corporations--yes, some more than others. But in this case, which needs rational clear reporting, education and discussion, it is a matter of people, both whom have created prior art and people desperate for the chance to reap the benefits of producing new art who are being painted the "bad guys" just because corporations happen to be incidental to their processes for achieving success in favor of ungrateful new usurpers and masses of free-loaders great and small who have their own made-up view of "economy" which says they just get stuff and don't ever have to think about what it cost or who paid for it in the first place. This is a critical issue of our time folks--not just a side-line story behind which ass-hole the Republicans are finally going to settle on as their candidate for POTUS. This is about ECONOMY and stagnation thereof--an ongoing saga that effects us all. It is also about the whole-sale purchase of an illusion of a "free speech" Valhalla where everything that is said is believed to be heard when indeed by keeping the Internet just what it is, we are limiting ourselves to the pathetic level of missed connections that has made the Information Technology Revolution a big fizzle. There's more to the "recession" than "recession".

Is all our so-thought Internet-facilitated free speech adding up to historic synergies in which unknown players are combining to create new wholes greater than the sum of their parts that are illuminating new paths to social, economic, ecological and political progress? Or might the types of change that have come in the "Arab Spring" have come a lot sooner and a lot more securely and sustainably if someone were to actually have fully designed the entire ready-made replacement system and sought reasonable profit instead of making do and riding on the coattails of the truly aimless, advertising-underpinned, socially and politically inept "Face Book"? We are much more capable than we believe of ourselves and artificially keeping the Internet what it is because people like Cenk Uguyr and other media types who talk in good-guy/bad-guy generalities without finding out just what the real scope of the issue is a big mistake that will let the wrong side win--the deluded people who don't know what else is just ahead of their grasp--and we will never see anything more than what we already have in the way of real free speech advance in our life-times. We will continue to pour out our personal perspectives into this huge filing cabinet where there is only the ethic to speak and maybe criticize but not listen and never the means to build the successor systems we really want and need that we do not need permissions for because there is no one that powerful to grant them--they are already ours to exercise paid for by everyone else who gave service to real freedom. I've given Cenk all the slack to down the President without an answer of who else will we get if we don't re-elect Obama, but on other issues such as SOPA and my recent commentary about how Cenk and Anna did a gross dis-service in communicating changes in the mental health classification systems, TYT is really just one more source of misinformation that is working against progress by shear belligerent arrogance. Perhaps it's youth. All I know is Cenk is not helping--he's getting the message cocked up and ass backwards and I'm outta there. There is no standard but what Cenk seems to say there is and that's so not good enough.




reflects nothing but blusterous

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JennyB
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Re: Cenk has lost me and I'm officially done with TYT

Postby JennyB » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:00 am

It sets up a government beauracracy to censor the internet--block web sites from existing, block google from displaying them. All the definitions are vague. Essentially it lets the government suppress any web site it doesn't like.


My first thought when I read this Mike, is if they get their way there goes Wiki.. And for all it's faults it's still a good site to go to.

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Re: Cenk has lost me and I'm officially done with TYT

Postby Marie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:25 am

Rarebird, you started a thread making many of the same points that got 17 replies over here in another part of the forum.

Why start another thread on the same topic, ostensibly about Cenk, when it appears it's actually a duplicate thread about SOPA?

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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JennyB
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Re: Cenk has lost me and I'm officially done with TYT

Postby JennyB » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:39 am

Marie wrote:Rarebird, you started a thread making many of the same points that got 17 replies over here in another part of the forum.

Why start another thread on the same topic, ostensibly about Cenk, when it appears it's actually a duplicate thread about SOPA?

-Marie-


But not really Marie.... It's a Cenk bitch thread because RareBird doesn't like the language and the bravado that Cenk uses.... No different that than the criticism's that have been given about Keith and his opions/style so on and so forth.

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Re: Cenk has lost me and I'm officially done with TYT

Postby Karl » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:52 am

Obama is the world's leading terrorist, fighting for ever more war, ever more erosion of rights, ever more power to the few over the many, the brutal strikedown of anyone who dares be any sort of obstacle to the atrocities he is in charge of. Obama must be stopped. Congress must be cast out, the vast majority of them replaced, for there to be any hope to make things right again.

Cenk and his team are of the very few who even speaks about the real problems with the USA, the rest are doing all they can to preserve the status quo. If you're quitting TYT, you are way off.

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Re: Cenk has lost me and I'm officially done with TYT

Postby dejapig » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:39 pm

Huh? :-s
Obama is a terrorist looking for more war? Did you miss it when the US left Iraq? How is less actually "more"?
Be who you are & say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter & those who matter don't mind. --Dr. Seuss
Keith Olbermann rocks! --dejapig

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Re: Cenk has lost me and I'm officially done with TYT

Postby RareBird » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:11 am

Michael wrote:You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I would invite you to look at tonights Countdown and the discussion from Markos of Daily KOS, who frames this as absolutely apocolyptic, and that SOPA is a disaster. Anyone who looks objectively at the current bill should be appalled. It sets up a government beauracracy to censor the internet--block web sites from existing, block google from displaying them. All the definitions are vague. Essentially it lets the government suppress any web site it doesn't like.

This is a disaster of an idea. If you are for net censorship, you are entitled to your opinion, but it is not correct.



I am for radical change and if net censorship cause people to get into action to build something better even if it costs something and is "excluding", I think that is healthy for the crappy, stagnant economy. That is my position. Keeping the Internet the same is the worst that could happen. No pain, no gain. Of course I'm not for censorship--I'm just against the collapse of economic value caused by the liberties people have taken with other people's work with the net as well as the deluded idea that "free information" automatically translates into social progress--it does the opposite. It create disincentive to move. I know that sounds "rightist" and I'm usually the opposite, but technology if our means to build the future that will never just be "delivered" to us for free. So please don't just judge me "incorrect". It takes a lot more than reading my post to encompass the dimensions of what's at stake beside censorship. And sometimes am act of austerity brings about a revolution that has been long over-due.

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Re: Cenk has lost me and I'm officially done with TYT

Postby Karl » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:26 pm

dejapig wrote:Huh? :-s
Obama is a terrorist looking for more war? Did you miss it when the US left Iraq? How is less actually "more"?


They left because the Iraqis wouldn't let them stay.

And the US is engaged in multiple drone wars, assassinating anyone they feel like, kidnapping people, keeping them in terrible conditions and giving them no form of justice. The US military and intelligence agencies create more terror than anyone else on this planet. Meanwhile the police are being armed as if they were military, and they are acting as if the general population is their enemy, rather than those they are meant to serve and protect.

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Re: Cenk has lost me and I'm officially done with TYT

Postby dejapig » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:57 pm

If we're out of there and the Iraqi police are treating their citizens poorly, isn't that on them, not us?
Be who you are & say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter & those who matter don't mind. --Dr. Seuss

Keith Olbermann rocks! --dejapig


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