Climategate

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Re: Climategate

Postby dejapig » Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:56 pm

His Lordship? A Monckton apologist. :roll:

You're out of luck on the "less disdain" for his Lordship in this forum, billy. You might want to try PeersOfTheRealmFanboys.com

I think you'd fit right in. :lol:
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Re: Climategate

Postby BrooklynBilly » Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:05 pm

dejapig wrote:His Lordship? A Monckton apologist. :roll:

You're out of luck on the "less disdain" for his Lordship in this forum, billy. You might want to try PeersOfTheRealmFanboys.com

I think you'd fit right in. :lol:


Like many of the Irish I happen to be a descendent of kings. My family ruled over much of what is now a hog farm in County Kilkenny.
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Re: Climategate

Postby AaronCT » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:17 pm

BrooklynBilly wrote:I'd like to see some legitimate criticizm of the facts put forward in the article and a bit less disdain for his Lordship.


Well for one the "whistle-blower" mentioned so often in the screed was actually a hacker.

Climategate hack used open proxies
More details are emerging about the "Climategate" hack. It appears that the hacker used an "open proxy" in order to hide the origin of the attack. However, the hacker may have made a mistake, and a review of the logs at RealClimate and ClimateAudit may reveal his/her identity.

As this post describes, the hacker made a comment to a ClimateAudit blog post from IP address 82.208.87.170. If we Google that IP address, we see that it is indeed an open proxy. We don't know the hacker's real IP address.

An "open proxy" is a machine that has been misconfigured to forward requests back out to the Internet. Hackers constantly rescan the Internet looking for these open proxies, usually HTTP proxies at ports 80, 8080, and 3127, or SOCKS at port 1080. Hacker websites maintain lists of active misconfigured proxies. When hackers want to be anonymous, they choose one of these proxies at random, they configure their web browser to go through the proxy. In this manner, anything they do appears to come from the proxy's IP address, and not from the hacker's IP address...

The RealClimate website was also hacked by the attacker and the zip file was uploaded to their website. You can read more here...
http://erratasec.blogspot.com/2009/11/c ... oxies.html

Most of the rest of Monckton's claims were already debunked in my first post in this thread.
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Re: Climategate

Postby AaronCT » Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:36 pm

"Overcome the angry by non-anger; overcome the wicked by goodness; overcome the miser by generosity; overcome the liar by truth." ~The Buddha

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." ~Mark Twain

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Re: Climategate

Postby dejapig » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:14 am

AaronCT wrote:Monckton is so distinguished. :lol:

http://www.desmogblog.com/christopher-m ... tler-youth

:LMAO
Could the man be any more ridiculous? I can just imagine him saying (read in posh British accent) "STOP! Or I'll say STOP again!" He is a joke. :lol:
Be who you are & say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter & those who matter don't mind. --Dr. Seuss

Keith Olbermann rocks! --dejapig

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Re: Climategate

Postby Hoppy49 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:33 pm

Only the shortsighted with bad memories can deny the climate changes,nor is it something Al Gore made up in the 21st century for capital gain.In the early 70s everyone was warned that if we didn't stop the greenhouse gases we were pumping into the atmosphere it would cause the global temperature to rise.The need for action was immediate or the glaciers will start melting,sea levels will rise,and climate changes will wreak havok on crops and the food supply.In response the Carter Administration took the first small steps to lower emissions.The Reagan administration DQd those efforts and everything we were told then is happening only 35 years later.It was too much of a burden on business.Sound familiar? There are none so blind as they who will not see.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster...When you look into an abyss,the abyss also looks into you.-Nietzche-

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Re: Climategate

Postby BrooklynBilly » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:12 pm

Hoppy49 wrote:Only the shortsighted with bad memories can deny the climate changes,nor is it something Al Gore made up in the 21st century for capital gain.In the early 70s everyone was warned that if we didn't stop the greenhouse gases we were pumping into the atmosphere it would cause the global temperature to rise.The need for action was immediate or the glaciers will start melting,sea levels will rise,and climate changes will wreak havok on crops and the food supply.In response the Carter Administration took the first small steps to lower emissions.The Reagan administration DQd those efforts and everything we were told then is happening only 35 years later.It was too much of a burden on business.Sound familiar? There are none so blind as they who will not see.


Now Hoppy I believe you just made that whole thing up. In the 70s the talk was of a new ice age, global warming was nowhere to be found.
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Re: Climategate

Postby AaronCT » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:51 pm

Study debunks 'global cooling' concern of '70s

The supposed "global cooling" consensus among scientists in the 1970s — frequently offered by global-warming skeptics as proof that climatologists can't make up their minds — is a myth, according to a survey of the scientific literature of the era.

The '70s was an unusually cold decade. Newsweek, Time, The New York Times and National Geographic published articles at the time speculating on the causes of the unusual cold and about the possibility of a new ice age.

But Thomas Peterson of the National Climatic Data Center surveyed dozens of peer-reviewed scientific articles from 1965 to 1979 and found that only seven supported global cooling, while 44 predicted warming. Peterson says 20 others were neutral in their assessments of climate trends.

The study reports, "There was no scientific consensus in the 1970s that the Earth was headed into an imminent ice age.

"A review of the literature suggests that, to the contrary, greenhouse warming even then dominated scientists' thinking about the most important forces shaping Earth's climate on human time scales."

"I was surprised that global warming was so dominant in the peer-reviewed literature of the time," says Peterson, who was also a contributor to the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change 2007 report.

Skeptics have argued that climate change is cyclical, not fueled by the burning of fossil fuels — coal, oil and natural gas. Peterson notes in the study that concerns over the frigid 1970s subsequently became representative of scientific division over global warming.

That was an unusually cold decade, especially the later years, across the Northern Hemisphere. In the USA, the winters of 1977-79 were three of the 11 coldest since the recording of temperatures began in the 1890s, according to climate center data. The winter of 1978-79 remains the coldest on record in the USA.

Just as it's hard for people today to think much about global warming in the dead of winter, it was also hard for the public – and the media – to focus on a warming world, while at the same time enduring some of the coldest winters on record.

"The temperature records we had at the time showed a very sharp cooling from the mid-'40s to the mid-'70s," Michaels says. "And scientists attempted to explain that as a consequence of the pollution that was preventing solar radiation from reaching the surface.

"At the time, scientists thought the cooling effect of pollution was greater than the warming effect of carbon dioxide," Michaels adds. "They were attempting to explain the dramatic cooling of the '70s."

But Robert Henson, a writer at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and author of The Rough Guide to Climate Change, says: "This is an important part of science history, and Peterson and his co-authors have done a great job of excavating it.

"People have long claimed that scientists in the 1970s were convinced a new ice age was imminent. But in fact, many researchers at the time were already more concerned about the long-term risks of global warming."

Along with Peterson, the study was also authored written by William Connolly of the British Antarctic Survey and John Fleck of The Albuquerque Journal. The research will be published in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.


http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate ... ling_N.htm
"Overcome the angry by non-anger; overcome the wicked by goodness; overcome the miser by generosity; overcome the liar by truth." ~The Buddha

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." ~Mark Twain

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Re: Climategate

Postby BrooklynBilly » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:53 pm

AaronCT wrote:
Study debunks 'global cooling' concern of '70s

The supposed "global cooling" consensus among scientists in the 1970s — frequently offered by global-warming skeptics as proof that climatologists can't make up their minds — is a myth, according to a survey of the scientific literature of the era.

The '70s was an unusually cold decade. Newsweek, Time, The New York Times and National Geographic published articles at the time speculating on the causes of the unusual cold and about the possibility of a new ice age.

But Thomas Peterson of the National Climatic Data Center surveyed dozens of peer-reviewed scientific articles from 1965 to 1979 and found that only seven supported global cooling, while 44 predicted warming. Peterson says 20 others were neutral in their assessments of climate trends.

The study reports, "There was no scientific consensus in the 1970s that the Earth was headed into an imminent ice age.

"A review of the literature suggests that, to the contrary, greenhouse warming even then dominated scientists' thinking about the most important forces shaping Earth's climate on human time scales."



"I was surprised that global warming was so dominant in the peer-reviewed literature of the time," says Peterson, who was also a contributor to the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change 2007 report.

Skeptics have argued that climate change is cyclical, not fueled by the burning of fossil fuels — coal, oil and natural gas. Peterson notes in the study that concerns over the frigid 1970s subsequently became representative of scientific division over global warming.

That was an unusually cold decade, especially the later years, across the Northern Hemisphere. In the USA, the winters of 1977-79 were three of the 11 coldest since the recording of temperatures began in the 1890s, according to climate center data. The winter of 1978-79 remains the coldest on record in the USA.

Just as it's hard for people today to think much about global warming in the dead of winter, it was also hard for the public – and the media – to focus on a warming world, while at the same time enduring some of the coldest winters on record.

"The temperature records we had at the time showed a very sharp cooling from the mid-'40s to the mid-'70s," Michaels says. "And scientists attempted to explain that as a consequence of the pollution that was preventing solar radiation from reaching the surface.

"At the time, scientists thought the cooling effect of pollution was greater than the warming effect of carbon dioxide," Michaels adds. "They were attempting to explain the dramatic cooling of the '70s."

But Robert Henson, a writer at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and author of The Rough Guide to Climate Change, says: "This is an important part of science history, and Peterson and his co-authors have done a great job of excavating it.

"People have long claimed that scientists in the 1970s were convinced a new ice age was imminent. But in fact, many researchers at the time were already more concerned about the long-term risks of global warming."

Along with Peterson, the study was also authored written by William Connolly of the British Antarctic Survey and John Fleck of The Albuquerque Journal. The research will be published in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.


http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate ... ling_N.htm


I reiterate, in the 70s there was more talk of cooling than warming and Hoppy's post is fiction.
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Re: Climategate

Postby AaronCT » Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:11 pm

The media may have been talking global cooling and "Ice Age", but the peer reviewed journals were talking about global warming. Here's a selection of citations from the peer reviewed journals circa 1965-1979.

Benton, G.S., 1970: Carbon dioxide and its role in climate change, Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci., 67, 898-898.

Berger, A., 1979: Spectrum of climatic variations and their causal mechanisms. Geophysical Surveys, 3, 351-402.

Brown, C.W. and C.D. Keeling, 1965: The Concentration of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide in Antarctica. J. Geophy. Res., 70, 6077-6085.

Broecker, W.S., 1975: Climate change: Are we on the brink of a pronounced global warming? Science, 189, 460-463.

Bryson, R.A., 1974: A perspective on climatic change. Science, 184, 753-760.

Bryson, R. A., and G. J. Dittberner, 1976: A nonequilibrium model of hemispheric mean surface temperature. J. Atmos. Sci., 33, 2094-2106.

Bryson, R. A., and G. J. Dittberner, 1977: Reply. J. Atmos. Sci., 34, 1821-1824.

Budyko, M.I., 1972: The Future Climate. Eos, Transactions of the American Geophysical Union, 53, 868-874.

Budyko, M. I., and K. Y. Vinnikov, 1976: Global warming. Soviet Meteorology and Hydrology, 7, 12-20.

Budyko, M. I., K. Y. Vinnikov, O. A. Drozdov, and N. A. Yefimova, 1978: Impending climatic change. Izv. Acad. Sci., USSR, Ser. Geogr., 6, 5-20 (in Russian); English translation: 1979: Soviet Geography, XX, 7, 395-411.

Charney, J. G., A. Arakawa, D.J. Baker, B. Bolin, R.E. Dickinson, R.M. Goody, C.E. Leith, H.M. Stommel and C.I. Wunsch, 1979: Carbon Dioxide and Climate: A Scientific Assessment. National Academy of Science, 22 pp.

Cooper, C.F., 1978: What might man-induced climate change mean? Foreign Affairs, 56, 500-520.

Hoyt, D.V., 1979: An empirical determination of the heating of the Earth by the carbon dioxide greenhouse effect. Nature, 282, 388-390.

Landsberg, H.E., 1970: Man-made climatic changes. Science, 170, 1265-1274.

Mason, B.J., 1978b: Review lecture: Recent advances in the numerical prediction of weather and climate. Proceedings of the Royal Society of London. Series A, Mathematical and Physical Sciences, 363, 297-333.

Mercer, J.H., 1978: West Antarctic ice sheet and CO2 greenhouse effect: a threat of disaster. Nature, 271, 321-325.

Miles, M.K., 1978: Predicting temperature trend in the Northern Hemisphere to the year 2000. Nature, 276, p. 356.

Pales, J.C. and C.D. Keeling, 1965: The Concentration of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide in Hawaii. J. Geophy. Res., 70, 6053-6076.

Ramanathan, V., 1975: Greenhouse effect due to chlorofluorcarbons: climatic implications. Science, 190, 50-52.

Ramanathan, V., and James A. Coakley, Jr., 1978: Climate Modeling through Radiative Convective Models. Reviews of Geophysics and Space Physics, 16, 465- 489.

Rasool, S.I., and S.H. Schneider, 1971: Atmospheric carbon dioxide and aerosols: Effects of large increases on global climate. Science, 173, 138-141.

Rasool, S.I. and S.H. Schneider, 1972: Aerosol concentrations: Effect on planetary temperatures, (Exchange of Letters) Science, 175, p. 96.

Reck, R.A., 1975: Aerosols and polar temperature change. Science, 188, 728-730. Report of the Study of Critical Environmental Problems, 1970: Man’s Impact on the Global Environment. Massachusetts Institute of Technology Press, Cambridge, 319 pp.

Rotty, R.M., 1979: Atmospheric CO2 consequences of heavy dependence on coal. Environmental Health Perspectives, 33, 273-283.

Sagan, C., O.B. Toon and J.B. Pollack, 1979: Anthropogenic albedo changes and the Earth’s climate. Science, 206, 1363-1368.

Sawyer, J.S., 1972: Man-made Carbon Dioxide and the “Greenhouse” effect. Nature, 239, 23-26.

Schneider, S.H. and C. Mass, 1975: Volcanic dust, sunspots, and temperature trends. Science, 190, 741-746.

Schneider, S.H., 1975: On the carbon dioxide−climate confusion. J. Atmos. Science, 32, 2060-2066.

Sellers, W.D., 1969: A global climatic model based on the energy balance of the Earth- Atmosphere system. J. Applied Meteorol., 8, 392-400.

Sellers, W.D., 1973: A new global climatic model. J. Applied Meteorol., 12, 241-254.

Sellers, W.D., 1974: A reassessment of the effect of CO2 variation on a simple global climatic model. J. Applied Meteorol., 13, 831-833.

Stuiver, M., 1978: Atmospheric carbon dioxide and carbon reservoir changes. Science, 199, 253-258.

Sullivan, W., 1975a: Scientists ask why world climate is changing; major cooling may be ahead. New York Times, 21 May, p. 92.

Sullivan, W., 1975b: Warming trend seen in climate; two articles counter view that cold period is due. New York Times, 14 August, p. 24.

Wang, W.C., Y.L. Yung, A.A. Lacis, T. Mo and J.E. Hansen, 1976: Greenhouse effects due to man-made perturbations of trace gases. Science, 194, 685-690.

Wilcox, H.A., 1975: Hothouse Earth. Praeger Publishers, New York, 181 pp. Will, G.F., 2004: Global Warming?


I don't know whether Carter recognized "Global Warming" or not but the scientists certainly did.
"Overcome the angry by non-anger; overcome the wicked by goodness; overcome the miser by generosity; overcome the liar by truth." ~The Buddha

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." ~Mark Twain

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Re: Climategate

Postby BrooklynBilly » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:02 pm

AaronCT wrote:The media may have been talking global cooling and "Ice Age", but the peer reviewed journals were talking about global warming. Here's a selection of citations from the peer reviewed journals circa 1965-1979.

Benton, G.S., 1970: Carbon dioxide and its role in climate change, Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci., 67, 898-898.

Berger, A., 1979: Spectrum of climatic variations and their causal mechanisms. Geophysical Surveys, 3, 351-402.

Brown, C.W. and C.D. Keeling, 1965: The Concentration of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide in Antarctica. J. Geophy. Res., 70, 6077-6085.

Broecker, W.S., 1975: Climate change: Are we on the brink of a pronounced global warming? Science, 189, 460-463.

Bryson, R.A., 1974: A perspective on climatic change. Science, 184, 753-760.

Bryson, R. A., and G. J. Dittberner, 1976: A nonequilibrium model of hemispheric mean surface temperature. J. Atmos. Sci., 33, 2094-2106.

Bryson, R. A., and G. J. Dittberner, 1977: Reply. J. Atmos. Sci., 34, 1821-1824.

Budyko, M.I., 1972: The Future Climate. Eos, Transactions of the American Geophysical Union, 53, 868-874.

Budyko, M. I., and K. Y. Vinnikov, 1976: Global warming. Soviet Meteorology and Hydrology, 7, 12-20.

Budyko, M. I., K. Y. Vinnikov, O. A. Drozdov, and N. A. Yefimova, 1978: Impending climatic change. Izv. Acad. Sci., USSR, Ser. Geogr., 6, 5-20 (in Russian); English translation: 1979: Soviet Geography, XX, 7, 395-411.

Charney, J. G., A. Arakawa, D.J. Baker, B. Bolin, R.E. Dickinson, R.M. Goody, C.E. Leith, H.M. Stommel and C.I. Wunsch, 1979: Carbon Dioxide and Climate: A Scientific Assessment. National Academy of Science, 22 pp.

Cooper, C.F., 1978: What might man-induced climate change mean? Foreign Affairs, 56, 500-520.

Hoyt, D.V., 1979: An empirical determination of the heating of the Earth by the carbon dioxide greenhouse effect. Nature, 282, 388-390.

Landsberg, H.E., 1970: Man-made climatic changes. Science, 170, 1265-1274.

Mason, B.J., 1978b: Review lecture: Recent advances in the numerical prediction of weather and climate. Proceedings of the Royal Society of London. Series A, Mathematical and Physical Sciences, 363, 297-333.

Mercer, J.H., 1978: West Antarctic ice sheet and CO2 greenhouse effect: a threat of disaster. Nature, 271, 321-325.

Miles, M.K., 1978: Predicting temperature trend in the Northern Hemisphere to the year 2000. Nature, 276, p. 356.

Pales, J.C. and C.D. Keeling, 1965: The Concentration of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide in Hawaii. J. Geophy. Res., 70, 6053-6076.

Ramanathan, V., 1975: Greenhouse effect due to chlorofluorcarbons: climatic implications. Science, 190, 50-52.

Ramanathan, V., and James A. Coakley, Jr., 1978: Climate Modeling through Radiative Convective Models. Reviews of Geophysics and Space Physics, 16, 465- 489.

Rasool, S.I., and S.H. Schneider, 1971: Atmospheric carbon dioxide and aerosols: Effects of large increases on global climate. Science, 173, 138-141.

Rasool, S.I. and S.H. Schneider, 1972: Aerosol concentrations: Effect on planetary temperatures, (Exchange of Letters) Science, 175, p. 96.

Reck, R.A., 1975: Aerosols and polar temperature change. Science, 188, 728-730. Report of the Study of Critical Environmental Problems, 1970: Man’s Impact on the Global Environment. Massachusetts Institute of Technology Press, Cambridge, 319 pp.

Rotty, R.M., 1979: Atmospheric CO2 consequences of heavy dependence on coal. Environmental Health Perspectives, 33, 273-283.

Sagan, C., O.B. Toon and J.B. Pollack, 1979: Anthropogenic albedo changes and the Earth’s climate. Science, 206, 1363-1368.

Sawyer, J.S., 1972: Man-made Carbon Dioxide and the “Greenhouse” effect. Nature, 239, 23-26.

Schneider, S.H. and C. Mass, 1975: Volcanic dust, sunspots, and temperature trends. Science, 190, 741-746.

Schneider, S.H., 1975: On the carbon dioxide−climate confusion. J. Atmos. Science, 32, 2060-2066.

Sellers, W.D., 1969: A global climatic model based on the energy balance of the Earth- Atmosphere system. J. Applied Meteorol., 8, 392-400.

Sellers, W.D., 1973: A new global climatic model. J. Applied Meteorol., 12, 241-254.

Sellers, W.D., 1974: A reassessment of the effect of CO2 variation on a simple global climatic model. J. Applied Meteorol., 13, 831-833.

Stuiver, M., 1978: Atmospheric carbon dioxide and carbon reservoir changes. Science, 199, 253-258.

Sullivan, W., 1975a: Scientists ask why world climate is changing; major cooling may be ahead. New York Times, 21 May, p. 92.

Sullivan, W., 1975b: Warming trend seen in climate; two articles counter view that cold period is due. New York Times, 14 August, p. 24.

Wang, W.C., Y.L. Yung, A.A. Lacis, T. Mo and J.E. Hansen, 1976: Greenhouse effects due to man-made perturbations of trace gases. Science, 194, 685-690.

Wilcox, H.A., 1975: Hothouse Earth. Praeger Publishers, New York, 181 pp. Will, G.F., 2004: Global Warming?


I don't know whether Carter recognized "Global Warming" or not but the scientists certainly did.


I guess all those papers were read by about 125 people whereas the articles in the popular press were read by millions. I would guess that the vast majority of scientific articles written today go unread also.

The following papers support skepticism of "man-made" global warming or the environmental or economic effects of. Comments, Corrections, Erratum, Replies, Responses and Submitted papers are not included in the peer-reviewed paper count. There are many more listings than just the 500 papers. The inclusion of a paper in this list does not imply a specific position to any of the authors. This list will be updated and corrected as necessary.


http://www.populartechnology.net/2009/1 ... rting.html
Nemo surdior est quam is qui non audiet

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Re: Climategate

Postby AaronCT » Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:09 pm

This sums it up pretty well. :)

"Overcome the angry by non-anger; overcome the wicked by goodness; overcome the miser by generosity; overcome the liar by truth." ~The Buddha

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." ~Mark Twain


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