Obama's Speech

KO.O. Stuff from 2009
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Marie
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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby Marie » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:56 pm

I also noticed the absence of poetry, and I think it was appropriate under the circumstances. The president was signaling that this is difficult work being undertaken and that the cadets sitting in front of him are the ones who are going to have to carry it out. No hearts and flowers, no flags waving -- just a tough job requiring faith and endurance.

The speech in its brevity and specificity struck just the right note, I believe.

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby Slfriend79 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:31 pm

My heart goes out to the President... He's damned if he does, by those on the the Left, and damned if he doesn't, by those on the Right.

He's in a horrible situation and I think he is trying his best to clean up this pile of crap that was, one of many piles, left by the previous Administration for him to clean up.

Like Michael, I wish him and the plan well.
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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby WeReAllDoomed » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:04 pm

I can't say I picked up on anything we haven't heard already... securing population centres, troop training, no blank checks for Karsai, being nice to Pakistan.... isn't that what's been happening for a while now? And who'll be training the Afghan army exactly? Until now, contractors have done a significant amount of the work, and the word is that they've been nothing but shoddy.
Those are the headlines...god I wish they weren't.

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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby SusieQ » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:24 am

My husband said that Obama's idea of escalating to leave is spot on. He said if we leave things status quo, this war will just keep dragging on. If we leave flat out, we will leave the country devastated and vulnerable to a taliban take over, which we all have to agree will eventually come back to haunt everyone on this planet. Ramping up to draw down is much like sending in the top player in football in order to finish the game quicker. Obama didn't make a rash decision. He listened to everyone with any knowledge of this war. He took everything into consideration. He listened to Kerry, who I have confidence in as well to do the right thing for our military. None of us are good at quarterbacking from a couch, nor being president from one. just saying
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Marie
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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby Marie » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:18 pm

This CENTURY? :shock:

Money can have the last word on stuff like that. If we can't finance a war, we can't have one.

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby WeReAllDoomed » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:33 pm

Philbert wrote:There's money to be made in them thar hills. Between control of the oil supply and fat construction and maintenance contracts, the corporations have a gold mine. They have NO intention of going anywhere.


This is too right - although I don't give the Bush administration much credit when it comes to planning, one area where they've excelled is in setting up these bleeding sores that need constant tending. Why was there no post-war plan for Iraq? Because they explicitly had no intention of resolving that situation quickly. Why didn't they go in hard into Tora Bora at the beginning of the Afghan conflict? Because an early, genuine "mission accomplished" would have spoiled their fun.

From the point of view of the sane, these wars have been handled abysmally. From the point of view of Halliburton/KBR/Blackwater etc, they were executed perfectly. If we're still beholden to these guys, we'll never have a satisfactory conclusion.
Those are the headlines...god I wish they weren't.

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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby Marie » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:52 pm

That being said, Philbert, do you think we can get away with 3 more years? I mean, if the president follows through on his plans and gets the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan well before the 2012 election, can the economy hold up that long in your estimation?

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby Marie » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:14 pm

Philbert wrote:if he doesn't appease the Left on something , none of us are going to go out to vote in 2010, except those that vote for the Green Party..in states where you can actually vote for non-corporate parties. I don't live in one currently. So, I will probably be staying home.
Whoa, Phil, nobody should even think of 3rd parties right now! I understand the exasperation but we Dems have to learn to stay together when there's a threat of anti-gubmint types getting back in. You know who I mean: the ones who chant "The gubmint can't do anything right, it ruins everything it touches" -- and then run for office with the sole purpose of PROVING IT. They are anarchists, not Republicans.

We can't allow any more anti-gubmint types to get elected and continue to undermine our system of government!

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby Marie » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:56 pm

Philbert wrote:
Marie wrote:Whoa, Phil, nobody should even think of 3rd parties right now! I understand the exasperation but we Dems have to learn to stay together when there's a threat of anti-gubmint types getting back in. You know who I mean: the ones who chant "The gubmint can't do anything right, it ruins everything it touches" -- and then run for office with the sole purpose of PROVING IT. They are anarchists, not Republicans.

We can't allow any more anti-gubmint types to get elected and continue to undermine our system of government!
-Marie-
That's my point, Marie. I am not, nor have I ever been a member of the Democratic Party. I refuse to waste my vote for people who tell me they are doing one thing but end up acting just like the scumbags they replaced. We need more Parties in this country. Voting over and over for the same two corrupt parties is an exercise in futility.
Okay, and maybe you didn't intend it, but your editing misrepresented what I was asserting, with the result that you ended up arguing with a different point than the one I was making. Watch that stuff!

These guys AREN'T, it can be credibly argued, like the ones they replaced. They believe in the efficacy of government to solve problems and that's a BIG difference.

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Marie
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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby Marie » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:54 am

Philbert wrote:I didn't miss your point at all. I just don't agree with it.
Well, you haven't responded to it -- even though I described the essential difference twice. (That the current crop of Republicans have been using their governmental positions to undermine government, even as they used the law to undermine the law during the Clinton era.)

You merely used the occasion of my reply to reiterate your contention that the parties are the same -- holding up the most uncharacteristic Democrat as "proof"! Naughty, naughty! [-X

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby WeReAllDoomed » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:09 pm

There are elements of the Democratic party that are clearly different (and likewise for the Republicans) - but I have to admit, I'm not seeing a lot of airspace between the mainstream elements of each party.

Economically, Reagan started the "steam train to disaster" moving, Clinton/Rubin his the throttle, and Bush cut the brake lines, but they've all been working towards the same end. Appeasing their corporate masters.

Check out Obama's biggest campaign contributors (despite that fantastic grass-roots effort)
Screen shot 2009-12-06 at 03.04.30.png


What's that? No financial reform yet? Well, fancy that.
Those are the headlines...god I wish they weren't.

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Marie
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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby Marie » Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:42 am

I don't assume that a candidate is necessarily going to do the bidding of his contributors.

If I were a president just elected to office and some big contributor came around thinking to put the arm on me, I'd open my eyes real wide and say:

"But I thought you contributed to my campaign because you know I advocate good government!"

Like my dad used to say, you pay your money and you take your chances. Did Ma Bell and Microsoft ever suspect their monopolies would be broken up by some of the people they contributed to?

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Obama's Speech

Postby WeReAllDoomed » Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:05 pm

Despite all the channels and all the "variety", you could count the number of independent media entities on one hand.
Those are the headlines...god I wish they weren't.


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