Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

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Is the United States a Christian Nation?

NO. We may have a majority of Christians in the US, but we are NOT a Christian Nation.
14
93%
YES. We have a majority of Christians in the US, so that makes us a Christian Nation.
1
7%
 
Total votes: 15

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dejapig
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Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby dejapig » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:17 pm

I'm sick of the back and forth. Listening to olby stomp his feet in every post and tell the rest of us how "dense" we all are makes my head hurt. This is America--let's VOTE!

Are we or are we not a Christian Nation?
Be who you are & say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter & those who matter don't mind. --Dr. Seuss
Keith Olbermann rocks! --dejapig

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Marie
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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby Marie » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:33 pm

(And he never explained WHY he spent the better part of 2 days trying to prove... whatever it was. Why was it so important?-- just cuz he SAID it? Jeezy creezy. :roll: )

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby Olbyisawesome » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:03 pm

Marie wrote:(And he never explained WHY he spent the better part of 2 days trying to prove... whatever it was. Why was it so important?-- just cuz he SAID it? Jeezy creezy. :roll: )

-Marie-

To be honest, it wasn't.

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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby mykcob4 » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:15 pm

Olbyisawesome wrote:
Marie wrote:(And he never explained WHY he spent the better part of 2 days trying to prove... whatever it was. Why was it so important?-- just cuz he SAID it? Jeezy creezy. :roll: )

-Marie-

To be honest, it wasn't.

If you were honest you would admit that you are just plain wrong and quit this nonsense of calling everyone idiots just because they won't let you mislabel this nation.
TRUE founding father liberal!

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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby Olbyisawesome » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:33 pm

OK idiot. GFY.

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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby Olbyisawesome » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:09 pm

Philbert wrote:Personally I think we are framing this debate all wrong. I think there are two questions here:

1. Are a Christian Nation politically (not just the government or is the political system itself fundamendally Christian?

2. Are we a Christian Nation culturally?

The answer to the first question must be no. This is however what the Fundamentalist movement means though when they call us a Christian Nation. The politcal, social, econmomic sytems are all essentially "Christian". They are of course totally and compltetely wrong.

The answer to the second would be a qualified yes. Historically, and even currently, the dominant culture has been "Christian" in one form or another. But it must also be kept in mind that western Christian culture has evolved from non-Christian roots, both Pagan and Jewish. There are also other cultures that have been contributing to American society through much of the 20th century. We should always remember that the original inhabitants of this country were not Christian either, although they were certainly Deistic/Theistic.
Quite a bit of their culture has survived as well...

This is what I meant the whole time.

Politically we never were, that was never up for debate. (although some here tried to make it that)

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Marie
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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby Marie » Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:39 pm

So what was the big deal, then? Everyone (including me) acknowledged enduring (though not always appropriate) European influence, which included Christianity; but there's only one group that insists that "this is a Christian nation," and that's militant conservative Christians. And you unwittingly identified yourself with them.

If you hadn't stepped into a big pile of their propaganda and tracked it all over the forum, you wouldn't have encountered all that resistance.

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby WeReAllDoomed » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:13 am

This just in via HuffPo:
At an event in Virginia titled "Rediscovering God in America," Newt Gingrich and Mike Huckabee aimed to recapture lost political momentum for the Christian right with strong exhortations for members to involve themselves in politics in order to maintain and increase the presence of religion in the public square, the Virginia-Pilot reports.

Both men railed against abortion rights, gay rights and the lack of religious influence in American public life, however Gingrich upped the ante in his attempt to stir up the crowd with this line:

I think this is one of the most critical moments in American history. We are living in a period where we are surrounded by paganism.
However, Huckabee was not to be outdone in the use of hyperbole. The former Republican presidential candidate called the United States a "blessed" nation whose victory against the British in the Revolutionary War was "a miracle from God's hand," indeed the same type of miracle that defeated the legalization of gay marriage in California.


Olbyisawesome, I know you are saying that a line should be drawn between "political" and "cultural" when talking about Christianity, but these guys - the guys stirring people up and attempting to influence policy, do not. They see them as one and the same. Which is why its so important to firmly state the the US is not a Christian nation, because giving them that leeway, and believing they are holding your nuanced opinion, will allow them to take advantage.
Those are the headlines...god I wish they weren't.

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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby dejapig » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:20 am

Olbyisawesome wrote:OK idiot. GFY.

OK, we're already in GITMO, but if you continue with shit like that you will get banned...from the main forum and maybe even from our holding cell known as GITMO.

While it seemed for a while that you were trying to engage in civil discourse, you have once again descended to lazy, contentious, and condescending posts. Your typical post: 1) throw up a few links without taking the trouble to pull the relevant quotes from those links or state how those links support or denounce your position or that of another poster on the topic, 2) when a poster tries to respond to your unclear and inarticulate position, that poster is then sneeringly declared "dense" or an idiot for not reading the murky contents of your mind, 3) escalate the name calling, declare that we're all too stupid to understand what you think you've been saying all along but in fact have never sufficiently conveyed with any clarity whatsoever, and finally, 4) declare yourself the winner--best, brightest, smartest--at whatever competition was going on in your own head.

The "go fuck yourself" this time was a nice little topping on that cupcake.

Stop it. Stop it now.
Be who you are & say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter & those who matter don't mind. --Dr. Seuss

Keith Olbermann rocks! --dejapig

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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby Olbyisawesome » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:59 pm

It's funny how he can say things equally(or worse) as bad to me, yet I am the only one that gets threatened with banning. There are a few here that I have always been civil with, then there is some that I loathe. You know who those two are. Also those ones that I am civil with, I have never talked down to. You are one of those that I may disagree with, but I don't hate you. But if you want to reinstate the ban on me then fine. At this point I don't really care. It was fun talking to Doomed, and a few others. But one here really makes no sense ever.

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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby dejapig » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:32 pm

Real World 101, olby--you have to take the bad with the good. As I have told you before, I can see that you are intelligent and definitely have something to offer this forum. Your opinions and beliefs are very different in some cases from the majority of posters here. What the majority of the posters have in common is curiosity--why do some people believe differently than we do? As long as the discussions don't descend into he said/she said and outright name calling, we have the opportunity to explore ideas we may not have previously considered.

It is painfully apparent that you and a couple of posters do not see eye-to-eye on some topics. It was and is my fervent hope that y'all could get past that. Sometimes you do. Sometimes...you call someone an idiot and tell him to go fuck himself. That is not acceptable. To say that you've been called worse does not excuse your own behavior. In fairness to you, I probably do lean harder on you because you are the newer poster. The others have earned the respect (grudging respect in some cases!) of the other posters and it is usually you who can be depended on to reach the tipping point first.

I don't want to ban you. What would be the point of a forum where all we did was agree with each other? But telling someone to go fuck yourself crosses the line. If you truly don't care whether or not you stay, that will be apparent in your next few posts if you go no-holds-barred against your perceived enemies here. But if you (and all of us!) can dredge up a wee dram of patience to deal with, or just ignore, the people you don't connect with then we can all perhaps learn a bit from each other.

Mm'kay? :ghug
Be who you are & say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter & those who matter don't mind. --Dr. Seuss

Keith Olbermann rocks! --dejapig

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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby mykcob4 » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:36 pm

Here is the REAL arguement. If a person from a different nation happened to ask,"what kind of nation is America?" First you must correct them because America includes two continnents. Our nation is the United States of America. Second if you answer that question with, "The USA is a christian nation." You are misleading the person that asked the question. They will undoubtably assume that christianity is the power of rule in this nation and is the influence of ALL things in our nation. Olby knew that he was trying desperately to get people to admitt that this is a "christian nation", because of his political bent. He was and is being disengenious. If anyone asked that particular question of me I would answer..."We are a secular nation." This would accurately describe to the person that posed the question, our politics and culture. To say that this is a christian nation is ridiculous. It suggest that our culture is based on a single ideology. If anything our culture is very much secular as it is governmentally or politically. In fact the USA is very much "Pop culture" secular.
For instance I don't meet complete strangers and greet them and delve into their christian social world. At best the christian culture is very much a subculture. A wacko subculture that plagerizes, and immitates, pop culture. How many T-shirts have you seen that reads, "Got Jesus?"
At best one could explain that the majority of USA citizens describe themselves as christian, but you would have to further explain just as Michael has done that "christian" means a multitude of things in the United States. Evangelical, Roman Catholic, various protestant denominations, charismatic, etc...!
TRUE founding father liberal!

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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby Marie » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:56 pm

Michael wrote: Exactly! Well, I think is is disingenuous, when by definition they mean specifically NOT Mormon Culture and NOT Scientologist culture and NOT Catholic culture to add those people to your total to get to 51% and declare a "majority".
That's what I meant on the other thread when I said that originally, many Christians in this country didn't even want to accept Catholics as "real" Christians... but now fundamentalists have mysteriously come around because counting them swells their ranks. :wink:

-Marie-
You find out what someone is really like in "battle," and Olbermann is who you want to be in a foxhole with, Patrick said. "On the air, we had each others' backs," said Olbermann.
-David Goetzl: "Keith Olbermann, Dan Patrick still brothers long after ESPN's 'Big Show'"; MediaPost blog, 4-6-2012


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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby mykcob4 » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:57 pm

So far 100%. Hmmmm, since one in our group is SOOOOO enammered with majority rules, I wonder how he feels about the poll so far. I am waiting for the calling of all of us as idiots and the GFY insult to me again.
TRUE founding father liberal!

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Re: Poll: Are we a Christian Nation?

Postby dejapig » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:07 pm

He has already been chastised for that. I don't think that will happen again, but please, mykcob...stop kicking the ant pile!
Be who you are & say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter & those who matter don't mind. --Dr. Seuss

Keith Olbermann rocks! --dejapig


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