Blogging Countdown 12/11 #1: Mr. Roboto On Stage

Keith Olbermann Stuff From 2007 and Earlier
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SmittenWithKO
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Re: Blogging Countdown 12/11 #1: Mr. Roboto On Stage

Postby SmittenWithKO » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:46 pm

Iris, Obama started attacking Hillary loooong before Hillary "responded". If you had been watching the debates you would have known that. I'm just sayin' .... and keepin' the record straight.
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Marie
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Re: Blogging Countdown 12/11 #1: Mr. Roboto On Stage

Postby Marie » Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:33 pm

If something is just a joke...you don't include it with serious press releases on your web site. She is cold and calculating. She is not Bill Clinton. She likes to vote with the republicans. I believe she will continue this war and who knows what she would do with Iran. I don't trust her. The media is not to blame for what her own campaign put out.

Iris, you say she's "not Bill Clinton," but one of the things Clinton's campaign staff is remembered for was rapid responses to opponents' attacks. We can argue about where the joke belongs, but the point is, it WAS in response to an accusation from Obama which was calculated to exploit the shorthand image the press has painted of his opponent. And the press consistently fails to mention the connection.

It's true that stylistically she's not Bill Clinton, yet he is four-square in support of her candidacy -- and that can't be just because she's his wife; he'd tell her if she weren't qualified as evidenced by the fact that he risked the wrath of Gennifer Flowers when he refused to endorse her mayoral aspirations back in Arkansas on grounds that she wasn't qualified. Obviously, he can deal with anger from someone close to him who wants to do something he doesn't think they can or should do!

"Ambitious," "calculating" ... what candidate isn't? "Cold"?-- the people who personally know Sen. Clinton reject that characterization. I personally see no evidence of it. I think people expect a woman not to be ambitious and shrewd, and when she IS -- which is the only way she can win -- she is criticized for it.

I'm not saying Clinton is the best candiate, but I'm saying that in order for me to reject her it's going to have to be on policy grounds -- not on the basis of some cartoon Lady Macbeth image that the media have calculatedly crafted for their own amusement and convenience. They did it to Gore. They did it to Kerry. They're doing it to Clinton and Edwards. (And I'm supposed to believe the media are biased in favor of Democrats?)

Think about who raised this issue again, Iris: Keith noticed it, and voiced his concern. And not just as it affects Clinton, but the other candidates as well.

-Marie-
PS, other writers are noticing the trend and are talking about it --
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14181

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Marie
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Re: Blogging Countdown 12/11 #1: Mr. Roboto On Stage

Postby Marie » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:15 am

SmittenWithKO wrote:Iris, Obama started attacking Hillary loooong before Hillary "responded."

Yes, back then, ironically, political analysts were wondering aloud when Clinton was going to stop acting like she was "so far above it," jump into the fray, and attack Obama back.

So she does -- with humor yet (which supposedly she's incapable of) -- and look how the press reacts to her doing exactly what they said she needed to do!

I recall someone on TV, way back at the beginning of the campaign, saying that there wasn't going to be any way she'd be able to win with the press. I personally think it's because the people in the media haven't yet worked through their own complex attitudes toward the idea of having a woman president. How can they accurately set down the country's conflicting reactions to a female candidate's possible victory, when they haven't even begun to explore their own?

-Marie-

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Iris
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Re: Blogging Countdown 12/11 #1: Mr. Roboto On Stage

Postby Iris » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:32 am

SmittenWithKO wrote:Iris, Obama started attacking Hillary loooong before Hillary "responded". If you had been watching the debates you would have known that. I'm just sayin' .... and keepin' the record straight.


Why do you presume I haven't watched the debates? Is it just because I don't agree with you? I have watched them. Pointing out "policy" differences (as Obama has) is NOT an attack. The only democrat in the presidential race that is using "Karl Rove style character attacks" is Hillary and her surrogates. (just keeping the record straight)

I hope it backfires on them.
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Re: Blogging Countdown 12/11 #1: Mr. Roboto On Stage

Postby Iris » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:50 am

Marie wrote: I'm not saying Clinton is the best candidate, but I'm saying that in order for me to reject her it's going to have to be on policy grounds -- not on the basis of some cartoon Lady Macbeth image that the media have calculatedly crafted for their own amusement and convenience. They did it to Gore. They did it to Kerry. They're doing it to Clinton and Edwards. (And I'm supposed to believe the media are biased in favor of Democrats?)


Marie...I understand where you're coming from. The media does portray some of the candidates unfairly. But she has caused a lot of it herself. I mean how many times can you reinvent yourself without coming across as a phony??? My rejection of Clinton is primarily on policy though. She voted for the war and has refused to apologize for it. She likes to reach across the aisle to the republicans and vote with them for wars. I CANNOT support that!!!! It doesn't have anything to do with her being a woman.
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Re: Blogging Countdown 12/11 #1: Mr. Roboto On Stage

Postby oldladyinashoe » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:06 pm

I guess I'd feel better about Hilary if she'd just once actually said, I voted for the war and it was wrong and I regret it - or any combination of the above. But she's chosen -or her handlers have chosen - that she can't or won't do that. I hate to see a person displaying the same sort of stubbornness that Bush has made a hallmark of his presidency. I wouldn't be so crass as to compare Hilary and Georgie, but the fact that "I was wrong,it could have been a better use of military resources if I'd (or we'd) just listened to the the military folks talking to us," is something that both of them could say but don't, says something to me about her character,or the character that's being sculpted to fit her. And I don't see a gender issue here, to me or my voting family members anyway. She could be a man, a woman, or transgender for all I care, I just want her to be a little more realistic and aware of how her votes affect people. JMHO, of course.

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Re: Blogging Countdown 12/11 #1: Mr. Roboto On Stage

Postby Marie » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:45 pm

>I guess I'd feel better about Hilary if she'd just once actually said, I voted for the war and it was wrong and I regret it - or any combination of the above.<

As I've noted here before, she has said she regrets it, using exactly those words.

As for her gender, I said I believe that's an issue about which the illustrious members of the press seem to be experiencing some ambivalence. Not the voting public. The pubic is usually way ahead of the press, which is why it ticks me off that these would-be king-makers presume to interpret for me what a performance in a highly contrived "debate" situation tells me about the character of any of the candidates -- when their own behavior reveals more to me about media folk and their hangups and foibles than those of the candidates!

What more dramatic example than Karen Tumulty's "Love Story" contortion do I need to show me that the pundits do more to destroy the chances of worthy people running for office than all their opponents' "oppo" men put together?

-Marie-


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